NL5 ORGAN DONATION
This eighth-grade science lesson is about science and society. Specifically, it focuses on individual reasons for becoming an organ donor. The lesson is 40 minutes in duration. There are 22 students in the class.
| Time | Caption |
|---|---|
| 00:00:05 | Well you guys sure got in here in time. Beautiful. |
| 00:00:09 | Anyway, lets agree that we're going to be ourselves no matter what. Okay? |
| 00:00:12 | Don't let the camera bother you. Don't let the fact that I'm wearing a microphone bother you either. |
| 00:00:17 | That would be totally unnecessary. Just be yourselves. |
| 00:00:18 | [ bell ] |
| 00:00:21 | Um, I see you guys have all of your stuff there already. I'd like you to keep your biology things shut for the moment, |
| 00:00:27 | And that you all take a sheet in front of you. It doesn't matter whether that's a test sheet, or a scrap sheet, or a binder sheet, I don't care. |
| 00:00:34 | (notes)? |
| 00:00:35 | No, no notes. A sheet and a pen. No quiz. |
| 00:00:39 | Can I borrow a pen? |
| 00:00:40 | Can I tear it in half? |
| 00:00:41 | From one of them. Yes. |
| 00:00:44 | Guys, the sheet is meant to take notes for yourself, but it is not subject material. You just need a sheet, that's all. |
| 00:00:52 | Do we have to turn it in? |
| 00:00:54 | No, not that either. |
| 00:00:55 | So can we write on this? |
| 00:00:56 | Yes, you can. |
| 00:01:03 | Are we getting a quiz? |
| 00:01:04 | What do you think? |
| 00:01:05 | (yes)? |
| 00:01:06 | What do you think? |
| 00:01:07 | (inaudible) |
| 00:01:08 | What do you think? |
| 00:01:08 | //Yes? |
| 00:01:09 | //We weren't supposed to study anything for today so (inaudible)- |
| 00:01:10 | No. Exactly, exactly. Just a minor question to all. Ronald? |
| 00:01:16 | I just need a pen. |
| 00:01:20 | Why don't you have a pen with you? |
| 00:01:22 | He never has one. |
| 00:01:23 | (inaudible) at home. |
| 00:01:24 | How handy. |
| 00:01:25 | Okay. Um. Before we start to write let's make sure if all noses are facing the right way, whom of you guys have paragr- |
| 00:01:34 | Oh, I guess you need to open up your workbook in order to check that. |
| 00:01:36 | Who knows by heart whether he has completed section two four? |
| 00:01:39 | Yes! |
| 00:01:40 | I completed it already. |
| 00:01:41 | Let me ask that differently, who knows for sure that he has not completed it? |
| 00:01:46 | Oh oh. |
| 00:01:47 | We didn't have to do that yet. |
| 00:01:48 | Okay. Thanks. No this way I know what to expect. |
| 00:01:51 | Ladies and gentlemen, I have a question for you. I'd like to discuss a small part of section four today. |
| 00:01:58 | If you have problems with the rest of the content of section four, than I advise you to ask those questions at the end of the hour, |
| 00:02:06 | Or otherwise visit the "KWT". Not today though because today I have mentor hour. But you are always welcome. |
| 00:02:10 | However today I'd like to focus on a tiny little thing from section four, and for this you'll need pen and paper in a moment. |
| 00:02:15 | I'm going to place an overhead sheet here and then I'd like to see the hands of people who think they know- |
| 00:02:23 | Hang on, I need to place something on this. What is it that I just put down there? Only hands, okay? |
| 00:02:30 | A piece of paper. |
| 00:02:32 | That's right. That's at least one correct answer so far. |
| 00:02:34 | Yes? |
| 00:02:42 | For sure you can see my name. I want, raise your hand if you think you know what this- |
| 00:02:48 | Can you guys see this? Whatever you guys think this is. |
| 00:02:51 | Is that your name? |
| 00:02:52 | Is your name Cam Van Eik? |
| 00:02:53 | Cam is my name, yes. C-A-M. Cam. We'll keep that one. Leo. What is this? |
| 00:03:03 | Well that's a card that indicates that you are a donor. That you, uh, how do you put that? |
| 00:03:08 | //Donor organ. |
| 00:03:09 | //A donor card. |
| 00:03:10 | So this is a card that indicates I'm a donor. Shh. Who do you think possesses a card like this? |
| 00:03:20 | Guys, that clicking with ballpoints is very irritating. |
| 00:03:24 | When you have registered if you are 18 years or older. |
| 00:03:28 | Okay, okay. Jasper. Is it true that only people who are donors carry something like this, or do others carry it as well? |
| 00:03:37 | Do you have to carry it with you always? |
| 00:03:38 | I am asking Jasper. |
| 00:03:39 | Huh? |
| 00:03:40 | Do you know? |
| 00:03:41 | No. |
| 00:03:42 | You don't know? Who does know it? Maria? |
| 00:03:43 | Well, I'm a donor too, but I'm 12, 13 years old. When I was 12 years old I, uh- |
| 00:03:48 | In that case you don't have this. |
| 00:03:50 | Well, I'm not sure what kind that is exactly, for blood or something, but I was allowed to become donor at age 12. |
| 00:03:58 | I'll return to Leo. You may finish your story in a second. Let me return to Leo for a moment. |
| 00:04:02 | What's this thing with over 18 years old. Because it seems to me you know more about it. |
| 00:04:08 | Well uh- |
| 00:04:10 | No. Oh! |
| 00:04:12 | [ laughter ] |
| 00:04:14 | There it goes. Well it's still visible isn't it? Do you know something else, or not? |
| 00:04:18 | Well, when you turn 18 you'll get a flyer I think and then you can decide whether you want to become a donor or not. |
| 00:04:23 | There you go. Once you turn 18 you are a grown up person according to the law. You know you can drive a car then, that you may uh, choose? vote- |
| 00:04:30 | Whiskey. |
| 00:04:32 | Whiskey? What about whiskey? |
| 00:04:33 | You are allowed to drink whiskey. |
| 00:04:35 | Oh, you're also allowed to drink whiskey. |
| 00:04:37 | Uh, you get a paper sent to your home, and then you have to fill in whether you want to become a donor, yes or no. |
| 00:04:43 | You can see that I covered my choice with a sheet. Underneath it has my choice of what I wished to be, or rather what I want to be. |
| 00:04:52 | That means that everybody of 18 years or older carries this card. |
| 00:04:59 | Now I'd like you to write down--entirely for yourself, so not as a group thing, so it should be completely silent for two minutes-- |
| 00:05:06 | Now I'd like you to write down whether you know which organs we're dealing with here? |
| 00:05:12 | It doesn't matter if you don't know it, but try to think: about which organs we are talking, when we talk about being a donor? |
| 00:05:20 | Now two minutes of silence please. |
| 00:05:22 | But you can only become a donor when you're dead, right? |
| 00:05:24 | Shh. You can ask questions in a moment. First write down whether you know to which organs this applies. |
| 00:05:43 | It's no big deal if you don't know it, okay, Tineke? |
| 00:05:54 | Shh. Only a minute of silence. Come on, silence! |
| 00:06:07 | Jasper! |
| 00:06:29 | Shh. It is only a minute, guys. Come on. |
| 00:06:47 | Okay, 15 more seconds to go. |
| 00:07:04 | Okay. In a while I'll check out the answers you wrote down. Now I'll let that rest for a moment. |
| 00:07:10 | Uh, Jasper. You just told me, "This is only possible when you're dead." |
| 00:07:14 | Yes. You're not going to give a heart to somebody when you're still alive, are you? |
| 00:07:18 | No, I can't imagine that. How do you picture- suppose you're a donor, how do you picture this? What do you think is going to //happen? |
| 00:07:25 | //Well, you die and then they come to cut out all of your things, and then they give them to other people. |
| 00:07:30 | All of your things? |
| 00:07:31 | Well you write down on a little piece of paper that you want to become the donor of a heart or something, and then, uh- right? |
| 00:07:39 | Okay. Who has another picture of this? Leo? |
| 00:07:41 | You can also be a blood donor, can't you? And that can happen while you're alive and, yeah, (inaudible)- |
| 00:07:46 | What do you think this is about? Guys, cut it out. I'm not amused. What do you think this is about? |
| 00:07:52 | Well, I think this is about organs. |
| 00:07:54 | Exactly. This is about organ donation. So this is what Jasper said. When you die they'll check whether you're a donor or not and for which organs, |
| 00:08:06 | And then they'll use your organs to heal somebody else, hopefully. |
| 00:08:11 | When you're a blood donor though, then there's no need to indicate that because that's during your life. You're absolutely right about that. |
| 00:08:17 | Uh, who has another image than the one Jasper just painted? |
| 00:08:20 | Jasper said, "Once you're dead, they cut you open and take your organs out and then they place them in somebody else." |
| 00:08:25 | Who has a different image of this? Mark? |
| 00:08:27 | When you have very little money then you can also sell one of your kidneys, can't you? |
| 00:08:30 | In the Netherlands? |
| 00:08:31 | I am not sure. |
| 00:08:32 | Uh, these are practices that take place in certain countries, very poor countries, at least that's what you read in the paper. |
| 00:08:42 | I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen in the Netherlands. At least let's hope so, that it's not done. |
| 00:08:47 | You indeed have two kidneys, you've got two lungs. Uh, it's possible that you can live without one. |
| 00:08:55 | In that sense you could sell one, but I really hope people don't actually do that, for money. |
| 00:08:59 | Who has another image than the one that Jasper painted? Ronald? |
| 00:09:02 | (inaudible) but you can't simply donate a lung, can you? You couldn't put one into somebody else? Aren't there all of those blood vessels running through there? |
| 00:09:09 | Don't you have those in a kidney? |
| 00:09:10 | No I'm talking about a lung. |
| 00:09:11 | Yes but is that not the case with a kidney then? |
| 00:09:14 | Yes, but there are all kinds of blood vessels running throughout the lung tissue? |
| 00:09:18 | Well, let's check indeed what kind of organs you guys think about when you think about organ donation. |
| 00:09:22 | Who has written down a list of six organs? |
| 00:09:24 | Yes! |
| 00:09:25 | Jasper. Tell us about it. |
| 00:09:26 | Heart, lungs, kidneys, liver, skin, blood. |
| 00:09:29 | Heart, lungs- wait a minute, I'm going to write it down. Chalk. Heart. Lungs. |
| 00:09:37 | Kidneys. |
| 00:09:38 | Kidneys. |
| 00:09:40 | Liver. |
| 00:09:41 | Liver. |
| 00:09:42 | Skin. |
| 00:09:43 | Skin. |
| 00:09:44 | And blood. |
| 00:09:46 | And blood. Blood we just discussed right? That can be done while you're alive, so you don't have to use this registration for that. |
| 00:09:53 | Also with your skin, right? In that disaster, with the fire in the bar there were also uh, there they needed big pieces of skin as well, didn't they? |
| 00:10:00 | Skin transplants do happen, right? For people who have been badly burned. Then they can use skin. |
| 00:10:07 | That can happen as you're alive, that they take a little skin from your leg or your buttocks to put on your face or your arm, |
| 00:10:13 | But it can indeed also come from a- ladies! Marieke! It can also come from a dead person. |
| 00:10:19 | Liver is after your death. Liver transplants are possible. Kidney is possible. |
| 00:10:25 | Lungs... I don't think that's possible yet. I think that still a very complicated operation. And heart can be done. |
| 00:10:36 | Ronald, returning to your problem. Every organ is soaked with blood vessels. |
| 00:10:42 | So those blood vessels and nerves are always a problem. |
| 00:10:46 | But there are organs that are easier to implant than others. For instance the kidney is a bit easier than the liver, but it can be done. |
| 00:10:53 | Science has already progressed so far that it can be done. |
| 00:10:58 | Uh. Okay. I'm going to get back to this a little later. I'm going to show you the other side of this card now. |
| 00:11:08 | Why did you put a piece of paper over that thing? |
| 00:11:11 | That I'll tell you in a while. Since you can- you need to make a choice. The moment you get this form you have to make a choice about what you want to be. |
| 00:11:20 | I'll read it out aloud because I don't think everybody will be able to read it. |
| 00:11:23 | It reads, "Donor Statement. Your Donor Statement contains important and personal data about organ and tissue donation." |
| 00:11:28 | "Would you like to change these data," blah, blah, blah. "Explanation of the data in the front page." |
| 00:11:35 | "Option number one. You make your organs and tissues available for transplant after your death." |
| 00:11:43 | "Option number two. You do not make your organs and tissue available for transplant after your death." |
| 00:11:50 | "Option number three. You leave the decision to your relatives. Option number four. You leave the decision to a specific person." |
| 00:11:58 | That could be for example your partner, child, or someone like that. This is what you need to choose from. |
| 00:12:06 | Well I hope you realize that that choice is not a matter of putting a little circle down and ready! |
| 00:12:11 | It's not that simple. In order to make a decision you have to think about certain things. |
| 00:12:16 | Well, you guys are not yet 18 years old, but you heard from Maria that she has already decided to be an organ donor. |
| 00:12:23 | That's possible. Now once again I want you guys to be silent for two minutes, perhaps slightly longer, but we're starting of with two minutes. |
| 00:12:30 | I want you guys to come up with at least two advantages of organ donation and to write those down. Think about it carefully. Two advantages of organ donation. |
| 00:12:43 | And I don't mean for yourself, though you may do that as well, but rather for the whole community. Two advantages. |
| 00:13:33 | Try to come up with your own answer, guys. Because this is a choice that you are going to have to make all by yourself later on as well, and not together with others. |
| 00:13:38 | Try to think of it now for yourself. Ifyou don't know it, then you just don't know it. |
| 00:13:43 | Two advantages? |
| 00:13:44 | At least two. If you know more that's okay. At least two. |
| 00:13:51 | If you have only one, then I want you to try very hard to think of another one. |
| 00:13:59 | And not only for yourself, but for the entire community. |
| 00:14:26 | I already have three. |
| 00:14:27 | You can also have a blood vessel transplant, can't you, when they create a bypass or whatever? |
| 00:14:32 | Yes that's true. Then they take a blood vessel from your upper leg, and place that close to your heart. Yes. |
| 00:14:37 | Uh, only with donation you are talking about giving something to another person. Whereas for a bypass they use your own blood vessels. |
| 00:14:45 | I'm not sure whether they use donors for that as well. That I don't know. |
| 00:14:49 | I actually find it kind of yucky. |
| 00:14:51 | We'll talk about that in a second. |
| 00:15:01 | I see that some people are still writing, so I'll give you a little more time. |
| 00:15:12 | Why don't you place little scores in front of it to indicate how many you have. That makes it easier to oversee. |
| 00:15:21 | Very nice, ladies. You've all got two. |
| 00:15:28 | Connie? |
| 00:15:30 | When are we getting the subject matter for the test? |
| 00:15:33 | Come again? |
| 00:15:35 | When will we hear the subject matter for the test? |
| 00:15:37 | At the end of the class hour. Isn't that how I always do it? At the end of the class hour. |
| 00:15:42 | Okay. I think most of you are done writing. I'm sure you know what the next one is going to be. Because there are disadvantages, too. |
| 00:15:50 | So once again two minutes of silence, if necessary. At least two disadvantages. For yourself as well as for the community. |
| 00:15:59 | Consider it from different points of view. Jasper, alone. Try to think of two disadvantages for the fact that you are a donor. |
| 00:16:11 | Or why you wouldn't want to be one. That's possible as well, right, also that can be considered a disadvantage. |
| 00:16:32 | Try to do it yourself, Marieke. Later you may discuss it together but do try to think about it for yourself first. |
| 00:16:42 | Don't you know it anymore? |
| 00:16:44 | No. |
| 00:16:48 | Also try to focus on it from somebody else's perspective. If you think, "Yes, but I am in favor of this," try to put yourself in the position of somebody |
| 00:16:55 | Who wouldn't approve. Perhaps then you can think of a disadvantage. |
| 00:17:01 | Try to imagine somebody who would be opposed to it. |
| 00:17:49 | Madam, may we watch this videotape? |
| 00:17:53 | Do you want to go through this class once more, Jasper? |
| 00:17:58 | Let's see, I still see some people writing. |
| 00:18:17 | Edwin. |
| 00:18:18 | Which were those six organs again? I'm seeing only five. |
| 00:18:20 | Lungs were also part of it. No, we haven't gotten to that yet. We don't need to yet. |
| 00:18:26 | Can they do a stomach too? |
| 00:18:27 | Stomach transplant. My goodness. |
| 00:18:29 | And also intestines? |
| 00:18:30 | No, intestines I don't think. |
| 00:18:34 | You would have to find a way to catch those intestines all together. |
| 00:18:36 | Madam, lungs are possible. Somebody from my old class his mother had to be on an oxygen tank all the time, |
| 00:18:41 | //And she got a lung transplant? |
| 00:18:42 | //she got a lung transplant. Then she didn't have to do that anymore. |
| 00:18:43 | Yes? Lung transplant, let's add that, then. |
| 00:18:47 | Okay. Ladies and gentlemen. You have to imagine that in about four years, five years, you'll be asked to take this decision. |
| 00:19:00 | So you don't have to decide now, you still have four or five years to go. Keeping in mind that you'll have to make that decision, |
| 00:19:08 | I would like to see that in the group where you are seated, together- I'm not going to do this for too long, for a minute or six on that clock- |
| 00:19:16 | I would like you to exchange the advantages and the disadvantages, and that you guys discuss these together. And see if perhaps you think once, |
| 00:19:24 | "Oh yes, I never thought about this. Oh right, that's a good one." So talk about each other's plusses and minuses for six minutes. |
| 00:19:32 | You can save the lives of other people. |
| 00:19:35 | As well as your own life. |
| 00:19:37 | Oh I have that one as well. |
| 00:19:39 | That your own life gets saved? |
| 00:19:41 | Well that sure is an advantage to me. |
| 00:19:44 | Maybe your parents don't agree that when you're dead, your corpse is being cut into. |
| 00:19:49 | No you should not tell that to me. But each other. |
| 00:19:50 | (inaudible) buried. |
| 00:19:52 | (inaudible) |
| 00:20:00 | Body parts are also used to let kids practice with them or not? Not kids but people who uh- |
| 00:20:05 | You mean to make oneself available for scientific //purposes. |
| 00:20:06 | //Yes. |
| 00:20:07 | I also have that. |
| 00:20:08 | That's not part of this, though. That's something else. |
| 00:20:10 | I have, "People can do experiments with it that come in handy for transplant purposes." |
| 00:20:16 | In this show about crime they put down somebody's remains, just in the air. |
| 00:20:21 | In the air? |
| 00:20:22 | Well I mean just on the ground in open air and they watched how it began to rot. |
| 00:20:26 | Everything needs to be researched, right? |
| 00:20:28 | But please talk about each other's plusses and minuses. If you feel funny about me being here then I'll disappear. |
| 00:20:32 | No. |
| 00:20:33 | All right. Then talk. |
| 00:20:34 | I have only two. |
| 00:20:35 | For advantages I had: "You can help sick people, your organs didn't decompose unused, and you can make money donating blood," right? |
| 00:20:43 | Can you make money with that? |
| 00:20:45 | No, it's voluntary, it's voluntary. John, what did you have? |
| 00:20:50 | I also had, "You can save a life with it, and you can mean something to somebody after your death. When you're dead, you are not doing anything anyway." |
| 00:20:57 | Those are your advantages, right? |
| 00:20:58 | Yes. |
| 00:20:59 | What advantages did you have? |
| 00:21:00 | I had, "You can save somebody's life, and the people can experiment with it." |
| 00:21:05 | And now the disadvantages. |
| 00:21:07 | It seems rancid to me. |
| 00:21:10 | For whom? |
| 00:21:11 | Well, I don't know, you know, //weird. |
| 00:21:13 | //I wouldn't want the liver of another person in me. |
| 00:21:16 | Well, if you're almost dying then uh- |
| 00:21:19 | Yes, that's true. |
| 00:21:21 | My grandma has only one kidney. Once, it was sick I think. They could just take it out. |
| 00:21:26 | And then there was only one left. Does she have to undergo kidney dialysis or not? She doesn't. |
| 00:21:31 | She swallows a lot of pills, I don't know what for, but I suppose it's just because she's a grandma. |
| 00:21:35 | Because she's a grandma. |
| 00:21:37 | Madam, can I put that in certain religions or whatever, if you would miss certain body parts and you need to be buried, that they don't allow that. |
| 00:21:44 | Sure, that happens. |
| 00:21:46 | "He's missing a stomach. He cannot be buried." |
| 00:21:49 | I'm not sure about that, but for example the heart can be an issue, right? |
| 00:21:53 | But some parents don't like it when their kid, uh- |
| 00:21:56 | Talk about all this together now. That'll come up later. Just talk with each other for a while. |
| 00:22:02 | Yeah, you're left with less ashes. |
| 00:22:03 | You're left with less ashes. Is that an advantage or a disadvantage? |
| 00:22:08 | Smaller jar. |
| 00:22:09 | Try to discuss that which each other. |
| 00:22:12 | How is it going here? |
| 00:22:14 | Good. |
| 00:22:17 | Were there similarities in what you thought or were there differences? |
| 00:22:20 | There were some differences. |
| 00:22:21 | What did you say? |
| 00:22:22 | There were differences but we also came to some agreements. |
| 00:22:24 | Where was the difference? |
| 00:22:27 | About the disadvantages. |
| 00:22:30 | "When you don't die then there is no donor organ. Some people only think about themselves and don't become //a donor". |
| 00:22:34 | //That doesn't make any sense. They really don't just think about themselves. |
| 00:22:37 | Yes, but why? What makes you think they're only thinking about themselves? |
| 00:22:43 | Well if they don't give anything I think. But- |
| 00:22:45 | Yes, but why are they like that? Why do you think there are people who say, "I will not donate any organs"? |
| 00:22:50 | They find it scary. |
| 00:22:51 | For example. They find it scary. Is that what you have? |
| 00:22:53 | Yes. |
| 00:22:54 | That's right, people find it scary. Do you have a disadvantage like that as well? |
| 00:22:57 | Yeah, for example that you're not complete anymore. |
| 00:22:59 | Right. There are people who find it a crazy idea, right, when you get buried- |
| 00:23:02 | Sometimes it's not allowed by your religion. |
| 00:23:04 | There you go. Therefore, the way it's put here it seems very weird but one can think of many reasons why those people only think about themselves. |
| 00:23:10 | Try to write those reasons down as well if you can. Try to form an image of it. |
| 00:23:17 | If brain transplants were ever possible, which person would it be? The person that the brain comes from or the person that the brain is going to. |
| 00:23:27 | What is what? The donor? |
| 00:23:29 | No I mean, look. |
| 00:23:30 | Something that's not possible at all, but never mind. |
| 00:23:32 | No, I'm pretty sure brain transplants are impossible, but- |
| 00:23:34 | But I mean in case one day it's going to be possible, would the brain then- would it be the person //into whom the brain will go, |
| 00:23:39 | //in your case, there is not much to transplant! |
| 00:23:41 | Or the person that the brain is coming from. |
| 00:23:44 | I don't quite understand your question, but if you mean that uh- the donor is the one who gives- oh, you mean personality? |
| 00:23:51 | Yes! |
| 00:23:52 | That the personality gets transferred with it. |
| 00:23:53 | Yes. |
| 00:23:54 | But that's impossible. |
| 00:23:55 | That's impossible. I mean, if I would give my brains to you then you wouldn't be Jasper anymore. |
| 00:24:00 | I think that's what he is talking about. |
| 00:24:01 | I think we're talking about something that's not possible in the first place. |
| 00:24:03 | No. The brains: to remove all those little nerve cells, (inaudible). |
| 00:24:07 | No, I think- that's impossible. Those brains are connected with the rest of the body by numerous nerve paths that run through the entire spinal cord. |
| 00:24:16 | Eleven times to the moon, he says. |
| 00:24:18 | What did you say, Mark? |
| 00:24:19 | (inaudible) |
| 00:24:20 | It's something like 11 times to the moon. |
| 00:24:21 | (inaudible) |
| 00:24:23 | I think they mean 11 times to the nearest spot on the moon, or to the Aztec, but no further. |
| 00:24:31 | No, it's true, 11 times to the moon. |
| 00:24:32 | But for now please don't talk about things that aren't possible. I want you to talk about what's relevant. Advantages and disadvantages, try that. |
| 00:24:39 | We already did that. |
| 00:24:40 | Did you do that already? |
| 00:24:43 | Are you guys getting it resolved? |
| 00:24:44 | Yes. |
| 00:24:45 | Big differences? |
| 00:24:47 | No, we had more or less the same. |
| 00:24:49 | More or less the same. Disadvantages also the same? |
| 00:24:54 | Actually my disadvantages are a bit different than hers. |
| 00:24:58 | I'll be back. Is it working out over here? |
| 00:25:01 | Yes. |
| 00:25:02 | Many differences? |
| 00:25:03 | No, I have (inaudible). |
| 00:25:04 | Not too bad. Let me see. |
| 00:25:08 | Ladies and gentlemen. Uh, as I'm circulating here, it appears that what you say corresponds pretty well. Especially the advantages. |
| 00:25:18 | Many of the advantages are: you can save lives. Another advantage I've seen is: when you turn ill yourself, then there's |
| 00:25:28 | an organ available for you as well. Those are most of the advantages I'm hearing. The disadvantages differ more, and Daan said, |
| 00:25:35 | "There are people who only think about themselves." That's a disadvantage. He considered that a disadvantage. |
| 00:25:42 | So I asked him, "'Why would it be that people only think about themselves?" |
| 00:25:45 | And then I asked to make a little list of that. Who of you guys knows any reasons why people would be opposed to organ donation? Ronald? |
| 00:25:57 | It's not so nice for the relatives to have half a corps lying there. |
| 00:26:02 | Okay, so because they think it's unpleasant for their relatives that the body is not complete. |
| 00:26:07 | Right. |
| 00:26:08 | For example, that during the visit of condolence, and there is an open cast, that you can see the person has been cut. Is that what you mean? |
| 00:26:15 | Yes. |
| 00:26:16 | Okay, that's possible. There are people who don't do it because of the relatives, that they're afraid the relatives find it scary. |
| 00:26:21 | Or maybe the relatives have even stated so, "I find that scary. Please don't do it." Like with removing the retina from the eye, then people think that |
| 00:26:29 | When you view the body that the eyes will be completely gone. Well that's not the case. |
| 00:26:35 | Let me tell you that when the organs have been removed and the body can be viewed that one doesn't notice that. You don't notice anything. |
| 00:26:43 | But there are people who will bring this forward as a reason, and of course you have to accept every reason, right? |
| 00:26:49 | What else can be a reason why people only think about themselves? Thinking about themselves between quotation marks. Maria. |
| 00:26:55 | Religion. |
| 00:26:56 | Religion. There are people who will say from their religious point of view, "I want to knock on heavens gate in one piece." |
| 00:27:03 | "Not with pieces cut out of me." There are people who believe in this, and you have to respect that. There are also religions that say that without |
| 00:27:11 | Your heart you're not complete, your soul has gone. You have to respect that. Religion, okay. Any another reason? Jasper? |
| 00:27:19 | Some people say that when too many people stay alive then there will be too many people in the world. |
| 00:27:28 | I see. A reason can be that when you're sick then you should just die when that's a deadly disease. |
| 00:27:32 | Yes. It sounds kind of tough but- |
| 00:27:33 | And you shouldn't cure people. It could be a reason. To tell you the truth, I hope people don't think that way, but there could be people who think that way. |
| 00:27:44 | What could be another reason why people say, "I don't want to be a donor." Tineke? |
| 00:27:49 | Maybe they find it scary to think that after their death somebody else will go on with their heart or whatever. |
| 00:27:55 | Yes, the idea may simply be scary to you, exactly. It's possible, it's possible. Somebody else? Robert? |
| 00:28:04 | Well, the other people like your parents for example may approve that your body, uh- |
| 00:28:10 | As soon as you are 18 years old you are the one who decides about your //body. |
| 00:28:13 | //Sure, you decide but when your entire family or whatever, when they don't want it... that can happen, too. |
| 00:28:19 | So because--in fact what we already said before--the relatives may find it awful. |
| 00:28:22 | Yes. |
| 00:28:23 | Okay. |
| 00:28:24 | But also for yourself it can be a weird idea that you're lying there without body parts. That can also be a disadvantage. |
| 00:28:28 | Yes, that you can find it a scary idea that you are not whole. That you've been cut. |
| 00:28:32 | It's not about body parts. It's about organs! |
| 00:28:34 | Yes, organs. You're right. Organs, I agree with you, that's correct. |
| 00:28:37 | Lying there without a leg! |
| 00:28:38 | Uh, we've got advantages, those are clear I suppose. |
| 00:28:45 | The disadvantages are a little more complex, but they are definitely there. |
| 00:28:49 | Now you have to make a choice. I'm going to give you a couple of minutes so you can share, |
| 00:28:56 | Which doesn't necessarily mean you have to agree with each other. Let me make that clear, |
| 00:28:59 | With each other about which choice you would make at this moment. |
| 00:29:03 | It may change, which is no problem at all. Perhaps you think to yourself, "My opinion is different from the others." |
| 00:29:10 | Well then so be it. But we have been discussing for 15 minutes. I'll read them out to you one more time. |
| 00:29:15 | Choice one. You make your organs and tissues available for transplant after your death. |
| 00:29:20 | Option two. You do not make your organs and tissues available after your death. |
| 00:29:26 | Option three. You leave the decision to your relatives. And option four. You leave the decision to a specific person. |
| 00:29:34 | Go ahead and decide what you would choose right now and then discuss that with each other. |
| 00:29:42 | You were saying? |
| 00:29:43 | Did you say yes or no? |
| 00:29:45 | I'm going to show you my choice later on. I leave- no otherwise you'll get influenced, "Oh, she knows a lot about it, she probably knows." |
| 00:29:53 | No, you know a lot about it as well, and now it's time to find out. |
| 00:29:56 | I haven't decided yet. |
| 00:29:58 | You don't have to make the real decision yet, but whatever you would do at this moment. |
| 00:30:01 | But it's very different, if my mother becomes ill and needs a kidney, I would want to give it to her, but not to a complete stranger. |
| 00:30:08 | But that is not one of the choices. |
| 00:30:12 | But that's different than being a donor. Donor is really when you're dead, whether you make your donor organs available then. And if you would say, |
| 00:30:19 | "I don't want to make my heart available but my liver and my kidneys are fine with me." Then that's possible. |
| 00:30:27 | But miss, can you still become a donor when you have been sick or unhealthy yourself? |
| 00:30:35 | Yes. Because that doesn't necessarily mean that all of your organs are sick as well. That's possible. |
| 00:30:43 | Yes but if you've (inaudible) have smoked? |
| 00:30:47 | If you've had what? |
| 00:30:48 | Smoked. |
| 00:30:49 | If you have smoked. Then your lungs will not be of much use, but your liver might be working fine. Or your skin. |
| 00:30:58 | But your organs may be (inaudible) useful to them. Say if they want a lung, how can they tell that they shouldn't take that lung? |
| 00:31:09 | Well in any case they'll examine the tissue. They have to know which blood group it is, how strong it is. They'll examine all that. |
| 00:31:18 | Suppose later you do want to give something to your family, then isn't it a bad thing that you have said no on that sheet? Are you allowed to do it after all? |
| 00:31:26 | Whose choice is that? |
| 00:31:28 | Yes, but suppose ... |
| 00:31:30 | No, whose choice is that? |
| 00:31:33 | Well, of yourself. |
| 00:31:35 | Yes, whose body is it? Whose body is it about? |
| 00:31:40 | Well, your own. |
| 00:31:43 | Yes, and the moment they ask you, "What would you choose?" then there is no such thing like one choice being right and the other being wrong. You see? |
| 00:31:50 | It is however wise to discuss it with relatives, so they know. |
| 00:31:54 | And you can change it. If you later change your mind, then you can change it. |
| 00:31:59 | Sure. There is a phone number on it so that that can be arranged. |
| 00:32:02 | But if you're dead. Then it doesn't work anymore, does it? |
| 00:32:08 | I'll be, I'm going to say something about this in a second, I find this a good question. |
| 00:32:10 | Okay. |
| 00:32:11 | Yes? |
| 00:32:12 | Yes. That's okay. |
| 00:32:19 | If you have, for example, chosen four, about the specific person. So you have discussed it with that person. Imagine |
| 00:32:29 | That you are in the car with that person and there is (an accident) Then, he can't say anything anymore either. Then what happens? |
| 00:32:33 | The moment you get all those papers in, then you receive a form with it. Next you have to complete all that. |
| 00:32:37 | And as proof that you have completed this, you'll get that card sent to your home. |
| 00:32:41 | But that registration is all safely kept elsewhere and hospitals have access to that. |
| 00:32:47 | Once they know you're a donor they will retrieve your information to see, |
| 00:32:51 | Hey, what are we allowed to and what not, and with whom do we have to discuss it, and- |
| 00:32:54 | So you can also write down what you don't want to give? |
| 00:32:56 | Yes. Suppose you say, "I don't want my heart, but they can have my liver and kidneys." Then you can register all those things. |
| 00:33:05 | (inaudible) |
| 00:33:12 | I'm taking Four. |
| 00:33:14 | (inaudible) |
| 00:33:15 | A comforting thought. |
| 00:33:17 | Yes, if you really have (inaudible). |
| 00:33:21 | Four members of my family have died; my uncle, my aunt, my nephew, and my niece. |
| 00:33:26 | Yeah, and then? |
| 00:33:27 | What? |
| 00:33:28 | And then? |
| 00:33:29 | //My aunt at age 28. |
| 00:33:30 | //My aunt of cancer, my grandmother of Alzheimer, my cousin (inaudible) and my other cousin (inaudible).. |
| 00:33:39 | Nine months, one day before. |
| 00:33:41 | Yes but it's very sad altogether. |
| 00:33:43 | Yeah, but you don't need to tell that. |
| 00:33:44 | Yes, that is sad. |
| 00:33:45 | Ladies and gentlemen, pens down for a moment please. And all faces turned this way. |
| 00:33:52 | Whiteout down as well. Okay. |
| 00:33:55 | We've been thinking about this for half an hour now, and of course you do not have to make this decision as of yet. |
| 00:34:00 | But a couple of important questions have been asked to me which I would like to pose in front of the class. |
| 00:34:05 | For example the question has been asked, suppose you take choice four, a specific person. |
| 00:34:12 | And together you have discussed endlessly what you do and do not want. And you're in the car together with that person, and then you die together. |
| 00:34:21 | Then what? Well, the moment I receive that form at home I need to complete the whole thing. |
| 00:34:27 | Then it gets sent in, and as proof that I completed it I'm receiving this card which I have to carry in my wallet. |
| 00:34:34 | The moment I die, due to illness or old age or due to an accident, I end up in a hospital. |
| 00:34:40 | There they'll immediately check what my registration is, whether I want to be donor, yes or no. And right away they can call up that information. |
| 00:34:47 | That also means that if you say, |
| 00:34:49 | "It's fine if they take my skin and my liver, but my retina, that idea doesn't appeal to me. I don't want that," |
| 00:34:57 | Then you have the option to write that on that paper, then they won't do that. |
| 00:35:00 | So you can carefully register what you do and what you don't want. That's an option. |
| 00:35:06 | Uh, a second question being asked was, how is it possible that when you're dead your organs carry on? That can't possibly be can it? |
| 00:35:13 | Well that's in fact the only, as far as I'm concerned, unpleasant part of this story. The moment you are dead, you are declared brain dead. |
| 00:35:26 | Your body is no longer controlled by your brain. But they keep you al- your body alive, by making the whole thing pump- |
| 00:35:35 | So by making the heart continue to pump, the blood keeps pumping so blood keeps flowing to the organs. |
| 00:35:39 | You're on artificial respiration so oxygen comes in. Oxygen goes into the blood so that those organs go on. |
| 00:35:45 | They only do this because when you're an organ donor, those organs are alive until the very last moment. |
| 00:35:55 | So that is very precarious. Equipment keeps you alive artificially, but in fact you're already dead. That's hard for relatives. |
| 00:36:02 | And this issue will differ from person to person. There will be relatives who say, "Well, that person wants to become donor. Period. We'll do it, we'll accept this." |
| 00:36:10 | There will also be relatives who'll find it very unpleasant that the person hooked on to the equipment appears to be alive, |
| 00:36:16 | But the moment the equipment is turned off, he is dead. That all of this happens for the sole purpose of organ donation. |
| 00:36:24 | But that is the most difficult part of this story for me personally. |
| 00:36:28 | But that's how it works, Connie. It's kept alive by the equipment, and then a phone call is made, "Where is a need for an organ?" |
| 00:36:35 | Does the blood group match? Do the blood factors match- something we also discussed before, right? |
| 00:36:39 | Yes. |
| 00:36:40 | And then that organ is taken out, goes in a little box, with a trauma helicopter or whatever it'll go to the hospital where it's needed |
| 00:36:47 | And gets placed into the sick patient, or the patient as fast as possible. |
| 00:36:53 | Other organs they can keep stored. The skin they can keep stored so with that it's not really an issue. So that's how this is handled. |
| 00:37:02 | We've only got a few minutes left. Are there any urgent questions? John? |
| 00:37:06 | Well, why is it that when you're dead that you convulse, or fart, or something like that? |
| 00:37:10 | That's because muscles, they can be either relaxed or contracted and at the moment you die |
| 00:37:17 | Everything begins to relax. But not all at the same time. |
| 00:37:19 | So it could be that because of a certain movement, for example when the body gets washed that a certain relaxation takes place and then "eehh." |
| 00:37:25 | You'll hear the corpse make a sound because those muscles start relaxing. So that's why. |
| 00:37:31 | Ronald another? Shh, guys! Jasper! Karel! Ronald? |
| 00:37:37 | I don't know it anymore. |
| 00:37:38 | Okay. Uh, I must say that you- Yes, Ronald? You remembered it? |
| 00:37:42 | Well, once you're lying there and you get, uh, you are connected to the equipment then you will not be buried, right? |
| 00:37:50 | What? |
| 00:37:51 | But you're not getting emptied out to the extent that nothing is left of you. It's not like that. |
| 00:37:55 | They take out a few things that are useful or that they can keep stored. |
| 00:37:59 | And afterwards they close //you up neatly. |
| 00:38:00 | //they close you neatly. |
| 00:38:01 | But don't they have to wait until they need a donor? |
| 00:38:02 | No. |
| 00:38:03 | Oh. |
| 00:38:04 | No, they won't keep you above the ground for weeks. That won't happen. |
| 00:38:07 | Guys! We need to do a few more things in a few minutes. I feel that you have the right to know my choice. |
| 00:38:12 | I choose option three. I am absolutely pro organ donation, as far as I'm concerned they can empty me out completely. |
| 00:38:18 | However, through discussions I learned that my relatives have some difficulties with that. |
| 00:38:23 | So I said, "You guys know what I want, and when I die, decide for yourselves what you can handle." |
| 00:38:31 | So it's known that I want to get rid of everything--that everything may be taken out, that everything may be removed-- |
| 00:38:36 | But if my children would have terrible difficulty with that, like, "Geez, my mum, I can't handle this," then the choice lies- that's why the choice lies with them. |
| 00:38:44 | But they do know that I really want to be an organ donor. Maria? |
| 00:38:49 | Don't you think, "It's my body, so I decide about it myself?" |
| 00:38:52 | But they're also my children. And that's a very special feeling. So I- now, they have that right. |
| 00:38:59 | Should you want to be a donor right now, you can get a form from me that you could complete. You have to discuss it with your parents. |
| 00:39:08 | And then, uh, you can already carry that with you. It's just not registered. It's just a little paper that you need to carry with you at all times. |
| 00:39:14 | If there is a need we can come back to this the next time, but right now I'm looking at the clock. |
| 00:39:19 | We have two more appointments to make, quickly get your planners for the weekly assignment and for the central exam. |
| 00:39:47 | Uh, the central exam is Tuesday next week? Wednesday? |
| 00:39:51 | Monday (inaudible). |
| 00:39:52 | (inaudible) Tuesday! |
| 00:39:53 | Tuesday? Okay, Chapter Two, section one through section four. |
| 00:40:01 | B:00] |
| 00:40:02 | Uh, I'm not sure about the hour, I still owe //you that one. |
| 00:40:05 | //The third. |
| 00:40:06 | The third hour? Thank you very much. |
| 00:40:08 | What day is that? |
| 00:40:12 | Also December 11? |
| 00:40:13 | Yes, as you can see my weekly assignment has been adapted to the central exam. |
| 00:40:18 | [ bell ] |
| 00:40:20 | I'll see you next Friday. Then you'll also have the opportunity to ask questions about the CP matter and about the organ donation. |